Virginia Game Officials Want To Preserve Hound Hunting “Done The Right Way!”
December 12, 2007
By Tom Remington
In an article I posted the other day, I said that the state of Virginia was beginning work on dealing with hunting with hounds. I told you that I had contacted the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries to get some questions answered about the hound hunting issue.
I spoke by telephone with Bob Duncan, Wildlife Division Director, who was kind enough to answer my questions and relate to me the position of the VDIGF on the issue of hound hunting.
I first have to say that Mr. Duncan was quite emphatic and took the time to make sure that I understood that Virginians love their dogs and that hunting with hounds is a tradition that dates back to the very early years of hunting.
Hunting with hounds in Virginia involves many disciplines. There’s hunting deer, bear, foxes and many species of bird and waterfowl. Mr. Duncan even told me about his turkey dogs, reliving the days when he hunted the birds with dogs.
In reading a few news articles about the debate, I got the sense that the issue was about whether hound hunting should be outlawed. I found out that is not the case at all, at least according to Mr. Duncan.
The Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries is not opposed to hound hunting, Duncan said. He emphasized the fact that the VDGIF was interested in continuing to provide hound hunting opportunities for its citizens, “but it has to be done right”.
Getting it right is the monumental task that lies ahead for not only the VDGIF but for hunting groups, hound groups, landowners, farmers and any other stake holder in the hound hunting debate, along with the state’s citizens. Once again, I will reprint what is listed on the VDGIF website about the future of hound hunting.
The goal of the process will be to provide diverse opportunities for hunting with hounds in Virginia in a manner that is fair, sportsmanlike, and consistent with the rights of private and public property owners and other citizens.
The process, which will be proposed to begin immediately, will take a multi-pronged approach incorporating biology and sociology, input from stakeholders, modeled after the Department’s Bear and Deer plans with a time line to produce recommendations and a final report by November 2008. Possible solutions that could come out of the process could include non-regulatory, educational efforts, or regulatory amendments or statutory amendments.
Duncan agreed with me when I told him this was no small task. He explained that there are problems that need addressing concerning hound hunting. No one, at least from his department, is suggesting eliminating hound hunting, only making it better in a way that brings together all of the interested stake holders to first list concerns and complaints and then address ways to resolve any differences.
Part of what is a challenge for Virginia houndsmen is the shrinking landscape. Duncan explained to me that the large land tracts, once a haven for hound hunters, have shrunk in size or disappeared altogether. Hunting clubs are losing their lands and as the landscape changes because of development and the rapid changing of land ownership, so too does the opportunity for hound hunting.
Complaints vary somewhat when it comes to hound hunting. It seems that the number one complaint with landowners is trespassing. Mr. Duncan pointed out that land trespass as a whole was a big issue in Virginia and that was true for hunting as well.
In Virginia, private land is considered closed. To hunt on non-posted land, verbal permission is required. To hunt on posted land, written permission is needed. This holds true for hound hunting as well but there are a couple issues that sometime seem to stir up complaints from some landowners.
If a hunter loses his dogs onto private land that he does not have permission to hunt on, he can enter that property, without a gun, to retrieve his dog at anytime. The other is using dogs to drive dear across a piece of land not open to hunting, onto land where hunters wait in ambush.
“It’s all about respect for the landowner,” said Duncan.
As with anything there are abuses and this seems to be the case with hound hunters as well but Mr. Duncan hopes to be able to address these issues during this time of debate and come up with solutions that will make things better and satisfy more people.
Within the hunting community, the biggest complaint seems to be disruptions caused by dogs during certain times. Efforts have been made to adjust seasons in hopes to eliminate some of the disruptions. Mr. Duncan put it best when he said, “Somehow if we could come up with about 16 weeks in November, many of our problems would be over.”
For me, the driving issue was whether or not hunting with hounds, particularly deer, was a necessary tool to manage a one-million deer population. I must say that I was surprised when Mr. Duncan expressed to me that it was absolutely necessary. “If people in Virginia could not hunt with their dogs, they probably would stop hunting,” he said.
Although Virginia has no exact means of tracking the number of hound hunters, he said through surveys and estimates by fish and game personnel, at least 500,000 hunters used dogs. He claimed that 45% of all bear hunters use dogs and there are countless fox hunters.
Duncan worries about the future of hound hunting. He told me inexplicably that if hound hunting stopped, that the state of Virginia would have a serious problem in managing every species of game that is hunted in that manner. He said that it is imperative that groups and individuals be brought together to discuss hound hunting and resolve issues.
The ultimate goal for VDGIF is to create management plans for all game that includes hunting with hounds. Duncan expressed that hound hunting in Virginia is a lifestyle. As the landscape in Virginia changes and more people move into hound hunting areas, he worries that because this wasn’t a part of their heritage, it may not be looked on favorably. This presents a problem all unto itself in finding ways to educate newcomers.
The task that lies ahead for the people of Virginia is huge. If they can pull this off and come up with good game management plans that deal with the bulk of hound hunting issues, they certainly will have my respect. Duncan said that they aren’t going to rush this. He believes that a well planned approach, get people talking and find common ground, will yield a good result.
I’ll keep you posted with updates on the progress being made.
Tom Remington
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My take on hound hunting is this. If a person wants to hound hunt, it should be allowed only during a season when other hunters are not trying to stand/still hunt. I continue to hear that it is more about being out with the dogs than the hunt. Yet I have heard several hunters mention that their group with dogs took over a hundred deer. Of course this is usually in passing so it is hard to report something like that. I believe that bird, fox, coon, and bear hunters should be allowed to use dogs. I don’t know any hunters that still hunt those animals. The excuse that “dogs can’t read” just doesn’t cut it when it comes to trespassing. I personally have had several hunts ruined by dogs and hunters crossing onto the land I was hunting on. If you want to run dogs, do it during the off season. If it is not the taking of the animal that matters, just run the dogs in Jan and Feb, and leave the guns at home.
Amen, dogs going through my property ruins my hunts. I purchased the land so that I could stopping asking people every year to hunt on their property. I always have still hunted and when dogs come through where I’m hunting it ruins the routine of the animals. I spend countless hours working on the habitat, scounting, and patterning the animals all to have it ruined by dogs. Again I purchased the land and pay my taxes on it. The individuals who release the dogs do not. I do not ruin the dog hunters when they hunt, why do they ruin my hunt. And I have gotten the “My dogs can’t read” statement from the dog hunters. I do not believe the dog hunters that I have dealings with have common sense. If you release your dogs that the possibility of them going on land that is posted and that they and you are not welcome on then why release them in the first place. What these individuals are doing is using the system to poach, nothing more or less.
Kudo’s to the above comments. Like Virginia, California land owners are fed-up with hounds crossing their property, disrupting our hog/deer hunts, harrassing cattle, etc. Landowners, like Steve and Butch mentioned, are not fooled by poaching hound hunters. They (hound hunters) are unable to police themselves and through their own actions have put their ‘sport’ on short notice. California hound hunters are on notice….legal avenues and new state laws will soon vanquish (that means ‘eliminate’ for you hound guys) your beloved traditions.
I love hunting with my husband on our private property, still hunting. However, we have other people’s hounds running wild all over the place. Hounds account for a large portion of livestock being killed, even though fences are in place. I have picked up a hound that was shot, fed scared and hungry hounds that were full of worms, and am saddened over so many hounds I have seen hit on our highways running deer. Our local animal control picks up hundreds of hounds, that are euthanized. Times have changed, other states have changed, and Virginia needs to make some changes too.
ok. WELL I UNDERSTAND THE REASON YOU ALL HAVE THE OPINIONS THAT YOU DO. BUT NOT ALL HOUND HUNTERS DO ALL THAT STUFF. I HUNT WITH A HUNT CLUB ON THE CHICKAHOMONY RIVER THAT IS SURROUNDED BY SIX OTHER HUNT CLUBS. A MAN BOUGHT SOME LAND AND BUILT A NEIGHBORHOOD WITH 3 ACRES LOTS WHERE A BUNCH OF YANKEES MOVED DOWN HERE SO THE COULD BE IN THE “WOODS”. EVERY SEASON THEY COMPLAIN ABOUT DOGS RUNNING ACROSS THERE PROPERTY AND HOW IT DISRUPTS EVERYTHING. THE SAME PEOPLE ALSO HAVE BIG NETS SURROUNDING THERE YARD BECAUSE THE DEER ARE EATING UP THERE PRETTY LITTLE PLANTS AND BUSHES. IN MUCH OF VIRGINIA, WITHOUT DOGS THERE WOULD NOT BE ANYWHERE CLOSE THE AMOUNT OF DEER HARVEST. ALSO I WOULD THINK THAT ABOUT HALF OF THE HUNTERS WOULD NOT EVEN HUNT IF THEY COULDNT ENJOY THE SOUND OF A CHASE.THEN THE DEER POPULATION WOULD GO THROUGH THE ROOF. THERE WOULD BE ALOT MORE CAR ACCIDENTS AND ALOT MORE PLANTS BEING EATIN. PEOPLE HAVE BEEN HUNTING WITH DOGS FOR A LONG TIME. SO IF YOU DONT LIKE IT THEN WHY LIVE HERE. IT IS A HOBBY AND A HABBIT FOR MANY POEPLE SO WHY WOULD THEY STOP JUST CAUSE A FEW PEOPLE THAT JUST MOVED HERE DONT LIKE IT?
Dear Jimmy – I have lived here ALL of my life. I am not some Yankee transplant. I bought my land to do with as I wish. Not to finance a hunting place for you and your dogs. Save us all some headache and do stop hunting. Hunting with dogs is not hunting. It is chasing a dog that is hunting. Most people do not chose to live in an area based on the restrictions on hound hunting. You show your arrogance and your ignorance in not recognizing that times have changed and hunters must get along with landowners. You are your own worst enemy – it is more than a few that don’t like it. It is educated landowners who want a piece of the American dream and can afford to buy a little of it. They know enough to fight the battle. They do not want strange dogs or strangers ruining what is theirs. Why because the hound hunter is not considerate enough to find a place where landowners don’t mind or their is enough land their dogs won’t bother others. Hound hunters are like little boys who if they don’t get their way they throw a fit, do what they want or they take their toys and go home. So go home…. and take your cap lock off you are screaming.
I have been hunting for over 40 years both with and without hounds. Our club leases about 4000 acres covering several blocks of land and we run dogs on all of them. We do everything within our power to ensure that we hunt on “our” land and are respectful of others in regards to retrieving both our dogs and our game. It always seems that the only press that hound hunters get is negative. You never hear of the clubs that donate their game to soup kitchens or the under privileged in their community. You don’t hear about how much money the clubs generate for the local communities and states when they pay for dog food, kennel licenses, vet bills, fuel and all the extras that are purchased for our preferred method of hunting. I am not going to say that all hound hunters are ethical and respectful, but like anything else in this life, you are going to have your 10% that make it look bad on the rest. As for the dogs going through and ruining your hunt, all I can do as a hound hunter is apologize because I too would be irritated. Please remember this, there are probably more people now who do not like or understand hunting in general than there were a few decades ago. If we as hunters do not stop bickering amongst ourselves, we will not have to worry about hunting at all much less about using dogs. If I am fortunate enough to have grandchildren, I would love to be able to take them hunting and hear a pack of hounds running and see the same excitement on their faces as I did when I took my son and daughter and still have on mine.
mp, I am sorry to have to tell you this, but sinceable hound hunters, like you seem to be, are the 10% you speak of in the area that I hunt. The only hound hunters that I have had dealings with are dropping their dogs off on one side of residental area, then driving around to the other side to shoot the deer as they cross a state maintained road. Every once in awhile they will have permission to hunt on a piece of property thats nearby, but the piece of property is rarely larger than 100 acres. Noone can keep dogs on a piece of property that small so they don’t even attempt it. I agree with you about future legislation that will eventually be the end of hunting period, but I haven’t heard any negative comments on still hunting. You can even watch still hunting on the Outdoor Channel. I’m sorry to say that I don’t see Bill Jordan loading up dogs on the back of a pick up truck to hunt deer on Realtree Outdoors. Anyway, good luck this season. Usually I’ll only have through muzzleloading season to be able to harvest a deer, until they “Release the Hounds!”.
Steve, not sure where you live so I can’t speak for the hound hunters in question.
By the way, if you have DIRECTV, you can watch the pursuit channel (608) and a show called “Gone to the dogs”. It is about bear hunting with hounds in eastern
North Carolina. The reason you haven’t seen Bill Jordan loading up a pack of dogs on his truck it because you don’t need them when you are hunting private ranches with fences, food plots, feeders and guides whose job it is to locate the best possible stand for these guys to hunt. I am not here to get into a pissing match with anyone about whether or not hunting with hounds is more or less challenging than still hunting because I truly enjoy both. All I want folks to understand is that hunters of all game and methods find enjoyment in whichever way they choose. If you don’t enjoy it or don’t get excited when you go, take up another sport or hobby. I don’t know the percentages of those who support or those who oppose hunting with hounds but in my area of southeastern Virginia, it has been a long standing tradition and not one that I think will go away easily. Good luck this year and have a safe and enjoyable season.